we'll see more of this when it comes to energy. >> sean: thank you for being with us. that is all the time this evening. thank you for being with us on this special edition of hannity and i hope you have a great night. >> greta: tonight the economy, busy and jobs. president obama making big promises for a second term. cutting the deficit to changing the tax code to creating jobs. can that happen and will that happen? we'll look ahead special edition of on the record. >> folks, what is going to happen in the next four years if obama is true to form? that is the problem. mechanism for recovery isn't going to be there. >> 2013 should be the year we begin to solve our debt through tax reform and entitlement reform. i'm proposing it will be off the fiscal cliff together that 2013 is finally the year that our government comes to grips with

the major problems that are facing us. >> the issues we talked about, seven days ago are still the issues we still have to deal with today. the economy, a debt crisis. healthcare system problem. these problems exist. we'll have to find a way to find common ground. >> president is focused on the work that we have to do right now to help our economy grow and help our economy create jobs. it's to move the country forward economically. >> right now our economy is still recovering from a very deep and damaging crisis. our top priority is jobs and growth. >> when it comes to the great economic challenges of the moment, saying you want a balanced approach is not a plan. saying people need to pay their fair share isn't a plan. >> the four years of the obama administration, economic policies, they are clearly

anti-business, anti-entrepreneur. they are anti-job creation. >> greta: so what about the next four years? as we stare down the fiscal cliff, are your taxes going up? well, what about those taxes? >> they are going up definitely for higher income americans. if you are in the middle-class, i think it's safe to say that taxes will not go up because politicians on both sides. president, democrats and republicans are not going to allow that to happen. >> greta: unless they put a cap on deductions which is sneaky way they raise war taxes. so tax rates don't change but they get rid of some of your deductions. >> some the proposals is to cap

deductions say at $50,000 a year. your home mortgage interest deduction, your ira deduction or even $25,000. both of those would raise, first one would raise about $750 billion, second one $1.2 trillion. let me say this -- most people do not pay that. most do that pay way under, probably 95 plus percent. >> it's a fraud over ten years, when they look at ten years, we're going to have one or two different presidents. that is numbers snu mbers? >> anybody that is looking at ten-year horizon is crazy. but the budget law requires them to do it. i agree with you totally. so much could change, we could have wars, lower interest rates

and all these numbers are suspect. >> greta: the senate won't even do a budget. they won't do a budget. talking about somewhere, i don't feel like they are getting started? >> that has been one of challenges for the president and democrats and they are vulnerable to that criticism if they don't try to get something done. we do have divided government and have been doing continuing resolutions year after year. >> one of the problems that i see, if they raise taxes according to the plan, it's about enough money for people making more than $250,000, it's enough to fund the government about eight days. only way we begin to deal with this if we really restructure things. is there any indication there is a serious restructuring? >> i think that is what republicans definitely want to try to force in these negotiations with the white house. they are saying, we are willing

to accept more tax revenue as part of a solution to try to stabilize the debt. they want that in the context of tax reform that will help increase economic growth so you simplify the code and tax expenditures and good supply side of economics, that helps create more jobs and increases more revenue. >> greta: this whole discussion about tax reform, they will do something before the end of the year because we're not going off the fiscal cliff. but we won't do tax reform because it's so incredibly complicated but they have known about this problem. they could have been doing tax reform and they didn't? >> there are proposals out there for some kind of framework for getting to tax reform in 2013. so under that scenario, they would be some kind of stopgap

agreement to extend the bush tax cuts for any and all taxpayers -- we're not sure -- then instructions to all the relevant committees in congress to come up with the parameters of how much revenue you want to collect, what kind of deductions you would allow. that would take six months to a year. >> greta: sneaky other taxes, but are there tax increases? >> there is one obvious thing is to start the means testing social security benefit, medicare benefits. why do bill gates and warren buffett need medicare? this whole package will likely include means testing of some kind likely for wealthier americans, that is backdoor tax increase or backdoor fees. >> greta: thank you. what about those regulations, are they strangling business. some business owners say yes. you know what that means.

jobs are at stake. how do we look at the next four years. dennis is co-hanger of fox business network. are there new regulations kick go into effect or old regulations that are putting a drag on the economy? >> there is a bunch of new regulations. small businesses are hurting. they are going to be hurting worse unless somebody does something about that. capitalism is optimism. people start up new businesses driven in part of can do ego. we have a president says, get over yourself. you didn't build that. over 40% of people say taxes is biggest problem. number of regulations is at a simplify year high. the regulation coming is going to be on four fronts, obamacare,

companies will cut workers from 30 hours to less. or they will pay $2,000 penalty. you have an equipment maker who said they will put a surcharge on revenues. it will wipe all of her profit growth this year. dodd growth on to banks and banks, remember lend to small business. bank costs go up they will raise costs. the consumer financial protection board, it is scaring small businesses. it's asking hardware stores to file paperwork on these new regulations. lastly, the epa, it's decided that the carbon dioxide is now a toxic substance to be regulated. it will get in the way of businesses. state legislatures pass 40,000

new last year and many of those regulate small business. >> greta: so the answer is what? tell me your suggestion? >> the answer is america voted for the wrong guy. he voted for a guy who loves to regulate and looks at business and what are you doing wrong instead of looking at business, what can i help you do to build your business. we need a change. it will happen. after we go through enough pain. after employers start cutting back then we will wake up and fix it. >> greta: is there some political blackmail. i saw a bunch of articles they are going to take action. they didn't want to give president obama a chance. they weren't going to think of work with him. they make the pronouncement and harsh on american workers? >> obama came out and said,

surprise, i know i agreed we should raise taxes, now i want to raise taxes $1.6 trillion. we're going double it. that was a big change. both sides are taking hard line. one thing i can't figure out, tax hikes on the rich, $250,000, tax hikes will bring in $80 billion a year. our government spent $1.1 trillion more than it took in tax money. how is $80 billion going to help you close that $1.1 trillion deficit? this is obama saying i won, you lost, now eat it. >> greta: it's going to be eight days is what the tax increase is planned to do. it's not going to solve our problem. >> how are big corporations planning for the next four years. john engler is president of a

group of ceos and joins us. what do you expect in the next four years? >> jobs and more jobs we would like to see is economic growth is what the nation needs. we have to fix our fiscal problems. all of that ought to be designed with the idea of america getting back to work. >> greta: what do you need, president hasn't acted? >> i think it's a tremendous amount of uncertainty that has been draped over washington. there hasn't been action on key priorities. deficits at trillion dollars a year isn't helping but the long term national debt is a problem. that means entitlement reform and comprehensive tax reform because globally we are not competitive. average is slightly below 25%. regulatory reform or modernizing regulations, approvals on things

like keystone pipeline is necessary. there is $35 billion of projects at least because of supplies of natural gas that are now available that are on the drawing boards. east coast storm exposed how weak and fragile infrastructure. there is great return on investments. you need permission from the government and most often from the federal government in order to go forward. >> greta: that sounds like the wish list. putting a foot on the throat of corporations. it's not even so much the decisions to do those things. it's the indecisions that the corporations don't even know what is going to happen. the fact that haven't lowered the rates have made most big businesses put their business investment decisions on hold just waiting for congress to do something and president to do something. am i wrong? >> you are right. there have been a waterfall

kinds of issues. take the tax code. at the end of last year, some 60 provisions expired. so we've gone almost a full year how those deductions or credits are going to be in place. how can you describe those as incentives? at the end of this year, 40 more politicians will expire. they mean trillions of dollars of higher taxes on the entire economy. it's not just business but for somebody who is running a corporation who has a responsibility to board of directors, you can't take risks. add to this, dodd-frank implementation that is just getting started. new affordable care act, what is that going to cost. you can see why people want to keep something in reserve and factor in europe has been a basket case.

china is still growing but slowed a lot. united states is sitting here, we could do something if we could fix our own problems but we can't depend on the rest of the world. can't depend on our own consumers because they are also being very cautious. there is a lot of work to be done. the advice that every governor would say, we have to balance our budgets, let's put a plan in place. >> greta: they have known about this fiscal cliff since july of last year. they haven't done anything. i don't think people realize that paralyzes people from making investment decisions. they won't do anything until they have a deadline. the inactivity has been painful to businesses small and big? >> i like that say, kicking cans they are kicking 55 gallon drums

down the road. you are exactly right. imagine a family trying to make a decision, child off to college or buying a new home, you don't know what your tax rate is going to be next year. you don't know the interest on something you buy is deductible. you don't know what your healthcare is going to cost. same thing is true for a business but multiply it thousands of times. we would argue, look, this is an obligation of leadership. the president won a mandate to lead. he has to propose. the congress has to act and reacted to those proposals. it can't be something where everybody waits for the other person to go first. the burden falls to the executive and then the responsibility to the legislature needs to respond.

it has been locked up. i think the house in particular will point to the agenda they passed but that has died in the senate. the senate hasn't done a whole lot on their own. hopefully all that stuff, i think you have to be optimistic. the election is over, let's get it done. >> greta: who forget president obama said you didn't build that. small business owners didn't like that. what do they expect the next four years. tax cuts and entitlements, democrats and republicans don't agree on much of anything. is there any hope of bridging gap or don't hold your breath? you will hear from budget committee members, jeff sessions and chris van hollen is here. is a great reason to slow down. creamy mash potatoes, homestyle gravy and 320 calories. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

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>> greta: during the campaign, president obama took a direct aim at business owners, making comments, you didn't build that. that did make business owners mad. what are their expectations or a second obama administration. nick joins us. nice to see you. tell me, put on your thinking cap and tell me what is going to happen to business in year 2013? >> right now the are election is over. small business owners are waiting for the other shoe to drop. president has gone out and spoke ceos of very large corporations. he has met with congress but missing is people from small business wiasmt learned from washington. if you don't have a seat at big boy's table you will probably be on the menu. small business was very popular in the campaign but how quickly we moved into the crosshairs.

i'm afraid small business is going to be sack efficiently lamb. sacrificial lamb. >> it's like not talking to the doctors and nurses and patients and pay attention to the lobbyists and politicians. the president meant with labor and big business. why wouldn't he meet with small business? >> i think we're on the pulse. we are growth engine for the country. what he needs to hear there is new normal in small business. historically we plan for for the best and prepare the worst and now it's the reverse. energy costs are going through the roof as coal industry is put under attack. we are technology company and we

are big consumers of electricity so, we have a good perspective on what is going to happen in the economy. we have to operate with what we see. that is the worst case scenario we're looking at 40% business tax rate for small businesses. when you have an environment where china has 25% business tax rate and america has 40% tax rate. that not good for hiring. instead to use those to hire more folks we are sending the money to washington. >> greta: why do you think the president isn't talking to a small business and set aside the so-called wealthy. the impact on small businesses. why isn't he looking at that? >> i don't think he understand. i don't think he as a small

business background. he a professor and community organizers but he has never made a payroll. in the dynamics set up in washington is to put restraints on growth and expansion. if you have a small business with 40 employees you are disincentive to get to 50. if you have 60 employees you are going to cut ten to get below 50 so you don't have the rules and regulations. >> greta: go ahead. >> if you expand from a profit perspective the last thing you want to get profits north of $250,000. so obamacare has an increase in your capital gain taxes that is hidden. there is $800 billion of taxes associated with obamacare that are written into law. we have to maneuver around

those. we're going to maneuver, as you stated earlier, if eern if they get the $800 billion from small business over the next ten years you say fund for ten days but it funds the government 22 days. >> it doesn't seem like very optimistic picture. president needs to figure out what he is going to do about small businesses. if we put a clamp on them we're going to have growth problems with our economy. nick, thank you. >> up next, senator jeff sessions, entitlement spiraling upwards and republicans and democrats are at a stalemate over what to did about that. will they reach a compromise. jeff sessions is here next. a ohio business owner is fates ago 30% hike for healthcare costs thanks to obamacare.

he will tell you why he is bit worried coming up.

>>. >> greta: democrats and republicans couldn't find common ground during president obama's first term. republicans won't bouj defense spending and president obama won't budge on entitlements. jeff sessions is a ranking member of the budget committee and joins us. nice to see you? >> thank you. >> greta: first of all, what is the tone like on capitol hill between democrats and republicans. it seems like an all out war? >> i do believe the democrats have strengthened their positions and hardened their views since the elections. it looks to me it's going to be difficult to get the kind of rationale settlement that will promote growth and sound reduction of deficits that we need for our country. >> greta: do you see tax rates going up on the wealthy?

>> in my view we should not raise taxes at all until we know where the money is going. without a budget or without a plan, we it's difficult for me to ask my constituents to send more money to washington when they don't know where it's going to be spent. >> greta: i come up to your office and come up to the topic on waste and fraud. i know you have been pursuing that, as well. is there any discussion, people changing entitlements and spending. i hear no discussion in digging into profound amount of waste and fraud? >> that is absolutely true. we can do so much more than we are doing. whole portions of our budget were totally exempted from any scrutiny of cuts. for example, most of welfare program. the medicaid, the food stamps

all of which have been surging have no reductions in spending planned. people don't even talk about that. >> greta: i'm talking about the situation where you have seen the reports where you have five agencies doing the same training program. the overlap. senator tom coburn has written about it. i think people may be willing to pay more taxes if they saw a commitment from the government that they are not wasting it? >> absolutely. we are not doing that oversight. there are 60 job training programs in this government. i asked the head job training person, wouldn't it beif the government gave you your share of those 60 programs and let you develop. he said absolutely. >> greta: recent story of the general who had to pay back because he with a spent $28,000

on extravagant travel. you have situations where we have so many of those conferences and conventions. i know it's million dollars here, but government thinks it adds up. it's part of the culture. other people's money doesn't matter? >> it's part of the culture. we need to understand that every single dollar that comes into this treasure is under the responsibility of united states congress and the president. we need to honor that dollar. make sure that every cent of it is invested the right way. if we were to make government leaner and more productive, it would help growth in america. we could make america more productive to make the government more productive. it is inefficient and getting worse. >> greta: is there any sort -- since the election, i know the president was re-elected and picked up seats in the senate -- do you hear anything like we can

work this out? do you talk to people across the aisle? >> absolutely. you talk to people and they have this idea or that idea. it's being controlled at the leadership level and presidential level. so here we have been in session for three days since the election. the physical meeting just after that, after everybody has gone home to discuss what kind of fix there should be for the fiscal cliff. so we really have wasted all of september, virtually all of november now. we are getting closer and closer to the deadline which think about it -- means there will be no public discussion. we'll probably have some sort of debt secretly negotiated agreement right before christmas or right before january 31st and all members of the senate are expected to vote for it. that is not good way for the

american people to hold their representatives accountable for the votes and responsibility of managing their money. >> greta: i find it apaying, you can't find out how much money you need until you have budget. harry reid has single handily held up a budget. we don't even know what we need. >> exactly. they say they have to have more money. where is it going? where are you going to spend it? are you going to reduce debt? the numbers indicate they want to use to fund new spending. it has no impact on reducing the debt. >> greta: how much do you figure out do you need when you don't know where it is going. nice to see you. >> president obama and john boehner dedigging their heels on tax cuts. hear from the top democrat on the house budget committee. one business owner calls it a death sentence to family farms

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live from america's news headquarters, i'm marianne rafferty. >> the cease-fire in gaza appears to be holding. israel's prime minister says they have achieved their goals of weakening hamas.

eight day conflict killed six israelis and 116 palestinians. and massive pile-up killing two people and injuring dozens on a texas highway. one hundred cars crashed in extremely dense fog. more than 50 people are being treated at area hospitals and eight are said to be in critical condition. >> and victims of hurricane sandy drawing comfort from warmer weather and free holiday meals. more than 26,000 meals were served at new york city neighborhoods. macy's also brought joy to the victims to giving 5,000 tickets to their thanksgiving day parade. now back to the on the report. >> greta: it's swiftly approaching the fiscal cliff. if we want to avoid doing over it democrats and republicans have no choice but to work together. can and will president obama and lawmakers make it work. congressman chris van hollen joins us. nice to see you.

18 months have gone by since the first discussion about the fiscal cliff back in july and august of 2011. has anything profoundly changed that both sides will work out a solution? >> there are two things that changed. one over the last couple of years whether you like it or not there were lots of republicans in congress that were really focused on defeating president obama. some of they will said that was their major goal. that didn't happen. now, we need to move on. hopefully there will be more cooperation. president says he wants to cooperate. speaker boehner has set the right tone. the other major thing has changed is structure. we have an action changing event. fiscal cliff, it carries great risks but also creates great opportunities. >> one of the issues that the republicans don't like is raising the taxes on wealthier people in this country. i think president obama has set

it at $250,000. according to calculations that in the event that happens, that will raise revenue to finance about eight and a half days for the federal government which leaves 356 and change left in order to finance. i'm curious, does this not really solve the problem to real restructuring. just financing eight days isn't going to do much? >> we need to do two things. you need to look for additional cuts. as part of the budget control act that was passed more than a year ago, we did a trillion dollars in cuts. other group, under simpson-boles you also need revenue. it's a trillion dollars in revenue over ten years if you let the top rate for high income earners return to the clinton era rates. when you have simpson-boles talking about $5 trillion

reduction plan. that is significant piece of it. the president's proposal calls for total of $1.6 trillion in revenue over ten years. >> greta: one of games in washington, we talk about over ten years, we get a new congress and new presidents? >> that is true. you have to do your projections based on the best information you have right now. that is what the president's plan calls for. he has $4 trillion, $1.6 trillion in revenue which by the way is less revenue than proposed in the bipartisan simpson-boles recommendations to get to their number. it combines with cuts to try and get there. i think everybody who has looked at this agrees if you are serious about a long term deficit down, you have to take this balanced approach. if you don't ask for anymore in the way of revenue it does mean you are going to cut dramatically in other areas, more than just cut below.

>> greta: paul ryan has a nice guy and this there are a lot of nice people on the capitol hill. it's like you can't get things worked out unless there is a deadline. you make very poor decisions. why can't the members of congress and even the president, why can't y'all get things done more organized and early enough. why can't you work together better? >> as you say, paul ryan and i get along well personally. there are very deep differences on policy. we're going to move forward. it's not enough to find common ground. you hear the expression common ground a lot. as we know from the last election, there is not a lot of common ground. what is necessary is compromise. it means accepting some things you don't like to get some of the things you like.

it's meeting the other side halfway. that has been in short supply in the congress is a willing to compromise. it's tough because these are big issues, they are subject to lots of heated debate. that is what we have to do to get the job done. there has to be a give and take. not just hundred percent my way. >> greta: nice to see you. straight ahead in ohio, a small business owner has big worries about obamacare. his healthcare costs are skyrocketing and he doesn't know if he can keep his workers covered. we'll tell you about it, that is next. a handmade ornament. that's why we sat up santa's wonderland at bass pro shops. kids can get their free picture with santa, and this week make a... all for free. ♪ [ engine revs ]

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>> greta: president obama's reelection means obama care is the law of the land. now, some small business owners trying to figure out how much this could cost them and would they make it appoint to obtain it for their employees. >> good evening, sir, and i know you do not like the obama care. i'm sure it's -- what impact do you anticipate would it have on your business? >> good evening. i can tell you that our concerns are that the hidden factors haven't been shown to us at this point. what we do know is that at

this point we know this will be our first year that we're going to be reporting our employee value on the health care on w 2s. we're being told by the government that that is just a routine policy that they're asking for. but i believe we all are of the understanding that once we start recording those values, that there is going to be taxes levied on that evaluation for the employee or employers. that is a fear that we have. we're not sure where, how far that is going to take us, how deep goitsing to cut into our operating costs. one of the big things that we have as a problem is employers medium and small sized employers is that in our upbringing very employers -- employees with ugs over 20 years, our focus is give them a great place to can depend on us. the problem we're facing is that i'm not sure if i'm going to be able to continue to over

the kind of health care that they, their families and kids need. that is the fear that we're going forward within the 13. all of the the hidden agendas held back on obama health care we feel they're probably going to start to surface so we'll get a better understanding. the fear is that if costs continue to rise, we won't able to take care of them the way we have for many years and those rising costs will then force us to really consider whether we maintain, retract or grow your business going forward. that is the fear we have. >> let me ask you two questions if you report the value, let's say the value of the health insurance is 3,000. if you report the value the fear is that the government is going to determine that is income and the person receiving that w 2, that value notice going to have to pay income tax on the 3,000. is that what you mean as to

value on the w 2? >> that is what i understand. i'm not a health care expert but that is what i understand. >> greta: have you gotten an indication whether your costs goring to go up? and what percentage for next year? i'm hearing from some that they're getting information about what is going to happen to health care costs. i assume every year. do you have an idea what is going on as of next year. >> there is a renewal poll six our insurance company is telling us we have a 30% increase for next year. so now, we're reeling back from that and trying to figure out what we're going to do for next year, not even considering where obama health care is going to take us, we've seen an increase that we've never seen in one year. so you know, the problem is that our employees are paying more and more as they par tais

pis 'tis pait with us. at some point i'm just not sure if the employee is going to be able to afford to move forward. as i understood is that at some point they're going to be asked to move into state managed or state exchange programs. and we don't know what the cost is like that. the employee is not going to be expected to pay premiums at this point, the person going to pay for that, or taxes, someone is going to be taxed for it in order provide them health care. you know? obama care moving towards providing a national supplier of health care. no one knows what that national supplier is going to be charging. that is the unknown and the fear that we have moving forward. >> coming up, giant estate tax increasing looming in the next year. that is a big worry. can they survive the death

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visit care.gov or call 1-800-medicare. >> greta: if congress does not step in the new year will bring an increase to the so called death tax climbing to 55%. can small businesses survive that hike griff jenkins hit the ground in virginia to talk to a fourth generation family

farm owner. >> if the president and congress does not act before the end of the year, small businesses and farmer as cross the country will face a real threat to their survival. perhaps most daunting is the anticipated change to the estate tax or death tax as it's called. currently the estate taxed at 35% for anyone paying above and beyond $5 million if nothing happens this will change and rise to 55% for everything over $1 million. families like the bennetts here in southern value value are worried. james bennett is the second generation owner. they've been american farmers since 1929. >> there are a lot of challenges in agriculture. best things i have this year would be the draft. dougt. those circumstances we prepare for. the current situation with the

taxes, we're not prepared for. to give up our family farm, to have to get rid of it, sell it to pay taxes, i don't know, i don't understand that possibility. >> scott bennett is a fourth generation owner with a lot resting on his shoulders.. >> farmers and rancher as ross the united states know this industry is asset rich and cash poor. and the threshold of the estate tax is just entirely too low. and affects more farmers than you can imagine. it can strip way all of the work we put into trying to develop our farms and create food for america. >> how do you feel about the estate tax could increase to 55% for everything over $1 mill gin. >> it's scary and concerns

farmers and rancher as cross the united states that. is so a threshold so low, i know many people it's quite possible we have to sell assets. i feel agriculture is the back bone of the country. and this is something we need to look at and will affect farmers and ranchers. to folks in washington we're here trying to feed america. we don't have time to deal with regulations. we're busy enough trying to raise food and safe food for this world and this country that we can't necessarily, it's too difficult for to us try to deal with these volatile decisions they make. what this administration has done concerning you know the economy is trickling down and affects agriculture. we refer to the epa as end production of agriculture.

and burdens that they put on us inhibit us from being efficient and producing safe, clean food for the united states and the world. >> paul bennett is a third generation owner. >> i'm not a concern that understands tax law but based on the way it's been explained to me, i do feel like it's an unfair tax on those of us who have kind of paid our dus and earned our wage. we've worked really hard in the private sector to create something that is meaningful and something we're proud of that we can pass to the next generation. from that standpoint, i'm concerned. and not only from a personal standpoint, but as i think about good of the economy, good of the food supply movement forward, i think